Top Box vs Panniers

[David.]

Watch this :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b424iGkWe0Q

For me, the video is the case in point. My theory is, if the front end will go through, the rear will follow, providing you are travelling upright & in a straight line.

The obvious difference is that the width at the rear (panniers),  is lower than that at the front (mirrors),  therefore, road cones for example are a good target to hit.

I only use the panniers when necessary, the top box is on all the time, somewhere to put your lid etc. when off the bike.

[DaveCly]

Top box only usually, Mainly because I usually have MrsCly on the back, and when I'm on my own the top box is a pain to keep taking off on the LC! Compared to the TC I had before.

[Sleuth]

I use the bike every day to go to work.  As I find the RT looking naked without her panniers, I keep them on.  I also have a top box permanently attached.  My run involves me filtering through a dual carriageway.  I have never clipped the panniers while filtering - I did so once when I went through a set of concrete barriers!  >:(

Recently (beginning October) I was in the UK, and filtered my way from Ashford to Telford, via Heathrow.  The RT was loaded for an extended weekend. While it was a tad scary, I was still keeping up with a British plated GSA this one did not have any panniers!  I have seen a rider on a GoldWing successfully filter down a single carriage road where I would not dare to filter!  It all comes down to what is your safety margin, and as long as you don't "zig" when the traffic "zags" & have a bit of luck - you are ok!

Best regards
Sleuth

[ds99]

filtering on the North Circular A406 (North London) can be very hard or impossible with panniers, and even hard without them sometimes


there are some stretches where the lanes are very narrow/curvy and you can't even fit a small bike through especially if are any trucks/vans/4x4 vehicles stationary


eg look how much of the lane that truck takes up

[beemerboy9]

It all comes down to what is your safety margin, and as long as you don't "zig" when the traffic "zags" & have a bit of luck - you are ok!

Best regards
Sleuth

[size=2px]My bones are getting old and my brain is getting slower, so I find myself moving over [/size][size=2px]all the time to let through faster "filter-ers", and even appreciating the benefit of their "loud pipes" that alert me to their presence. [/size]
[size=2px]I am lucky enough to have two "polar-opposite" machines. I would no further think of commuting on the RT to doing a two-up continental tour on the scooter.[/size]

[Paggers]

Lane width is definitely a factor. I regularly have to travel the M62 from Warrington to Leeds and the whole of the section around the top of Manchester is taken over by roadworks with narrow lanes. I quickly learned that I can't filter on those lanes - at least not within my risk tolerance.

I don't personally think that the cases are a factor. As has been said previously, the bike is no wider across the cases than it is across the mirrors so if the front will fit then so will the back. It's definitely more about riding style and risk tolerance. There have been a few posts about the risk of clipping something with the cases when you 'turn in'. I'll be honest - and this is a personal view so please don't anyone start a flame war over it - but the idea of riding close enough to another vehicle that turning in might bring me in contact with it is a complete no-no.

When I took my car driving lessons (many years ago) my instructor gave me a 'rule of thumb' that has stuck with me and which I have adapted for filtering. His rule was to do with passing parked cars. What he said was: "if you have one foot of space, you should be going no more than ten miles an hour. With two feet of space, no more than twenty miles an hour. And with three feet of space up to thirty miles an hour." I have adapted this to use as a rule based on the relative difference in speed between my bike and the vehicles I am filtering between. If I have a foot on either side I am usually going no more than 10mph faster than the vehicles I am passing. The closest I ever get is about 6 inches, at which point I am doing circa 5mph (walking pace) faster than them. Any closer and I have my feet down and I'm walking the bike through the gap. I should also note that I don't filter at more than about 20mph above traffic speed.

Just to stress the caveat above - this is about my risk tolerance. I am regularly passed by other riders who are happy to go faster and through smaller gaps than me, and in turn I regularly pass other riders who are clearly less comfortable than I am. There is no right or wrong answer (up to the point where you hit something of course).

[Sleuth]

..., so I find myself moving over all the time to let through faster "filter-ers",...[/size][/font]

I should say that I am considered one of the slowest Belgians on the road.  I also slide over as soon as I see a fellow bike / scooter behind me.  I want to get to work -/ home not the hospital / morgue!

The rule in Belgium is that you can filter on the outer two white lines, not more than 50 kmph and with a maximum speed differential of 25 kmph.  THis of course is ignored by the majority of Belgian riders.  (Belgians have two hobbies - Tax reduction (evasion) and travelling as fast as possible without getting a speeding ticket.  The Police even warn people where they have mobile cameras, and when there is a speeding action!  I more or less obey the rules 

With the UK trip I had set the GPS to MPH and I was so used to reading it as Kmph that I was happy doing 50MPH (90 Kmph!)  Oops!

I have travelled the A406 - lived in Essex, and yes the gaps are a tad narrow at times.

As has been said it is all down to your personal limits.

Best regards
Sleuth
With the case of

[blokeonthemove]

When my previous 1600 was in for service they lent me a C650 scooter, wow what a machine, in town it is unbeatable, crazy money though otherwise I'd love to have one as a town bike.

[gogs01]

I've done a fair bit of filtering in my time and always with panniers.
As with some of our other posters, I don't worry too much about the panniers - the only time my panniers touched was when I was at a standstill and the guy towing the horse box I couldn't pass decided to squeeze me out - fortunately the mudguard of the horsebox was rubber and did no damage. Just one example of how some drivers will try to block your path while others will just about drive into a ditch to help you get by !
I've also had the (white) van make a sudden change of lane causing me to perform an emergency stop (from 10-15mph) which ended with me turning the bars and the front wheel juddering sideways to a stop. I managed to get my foot down before I fell over, then wondered what the noise was - I had the front brake hard on, the clutch in and about 6000 rpm on the tachometer (GPZ900, many years ago !).
Filtering around Paris on the peripherique proved to me that many people are much less risk averse than I am - they filter at crazy speeds, but of course drivers see this every day and therefore expect it. Having also driven around there, I wonder what happens if a local motorcyclist meets a lane-changing tourist .....

[ds99]

Belgian car drivers are generally terrible, as the Dutch are too. They all follow extremely close. I've no idea why.

[guest2360]

That have to stay close in Holland or they wouldn't all fit on the road. No matter where you ride in Europe though they can't come close to the antics you see on the M20.  Eurotunnel to Dartfird tunnel, nightmare.

[ds99]

I found Belgium motorways much worse than UK ones, lots of undertaking and people following dangerously close.


re: m20..


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... years.html

[Sleuth]

Belgian car drivers are generally terrible, as the Dutch are too. They all follow extremely close. I've no idea why.

Having experienced both sides of the Channel.  I live reasonably close to the Dutch border, I have experience of their driving standards.

For a motorcycle Belgium, and in the main the Netherlands is brilliant.  On the motorways they tend to give you space - about 75%+.  The concept of "Sorry mate I didn't see you" as being a valid excuse to wipe a bike out - does not exist.

The only time I get blocked, is if there is a GB sticker or on the plate.

I think for a motorcycle if you are alert then riding in Belgium is a better experience than in the UK.  However for the road conditions ... another story entirely!

On average the car drivers think about the biker, and make allowances for some of the stunts we pull.

Can we honestly say the UK driver is as considerate?  My wife passed her test in the UK, so she knows the rules.  Frequently she has surprised a UK plated car driver on a roundabout by taking her right of way.  These days the drivers see a foreign plated vehicle and try to force themselves on a roundabout.  That is far worse than driving close.  (If they touch you from behind in Belgium - they are at fault, no questions.  So it encourages careful driving.)

[Jacksnipe]

I have an RT TC with the BM luggage. I find the BM luggage way too heavy and prefer GIVI stuff. But the new bike came with its luggage. I never use the panniers unless on a big tour and only use the top box if with pillion (Most of the time) If I need the  ability  to carry a few items on the bike solo I use a tank bag/pack. I never like top boxes on any of my bikes without a pillion filling the void as I can feel the wind eddies wiggling the bike.

[paulh]

I never like top boxes on any of my bikes without a pillion filling the void as I can feel the wind eddies wiggling the bike.

That's interesting.  I rode yesterday with just the top box and felt the bike wobble 'a bit' .... now I know why!  I'm not sure I liked the feeling but now I know why I'll relax and watch it over coming days.  I guess I'll get used to it or not