Crashed on black ice

[circlehappenork]

Hi all,

Few weeks back I've crashed going to my dealer for the 24k service. Was riding on minor road (lower than B road) and slid on black ice.
Luckilly nothing happened to me, but the bike was deemed as total loss by the insurer. The bike is damaged on both sides. At the dealer they valued parts alone to be 9k to replace.
And now the annoying part with valuation. My broker is Entire Cover, underwritten by Tansar and the actual company that is dealing with my case is Action 365.
Just before Christmas I got the valuation: Gross Pre Accident Value: £10,550.00 with the salvage value of £3,165.00 (30%). Additionally they said:

The engineer deemed your vehicle to be a category Non-Structural.

I was unhapy with the valuation and followed their instructions:

If you are unhappy with the value placed on your vehicle, please provide us with a minimum of 3 examples to support your valuation.  They must be the same make, model, specification, have similar mileage to your own vehicle, and be for sale privately.

There weren't any bikes with similar specification on sale 'privately', given it's a 2 year bike, all of them are being advertised by dealers.
I have created a spreadsheet with comparison with other similar bikes on the market and their valuation was shocking. I'm attaching it.
For those who are too lazy, I had 65 plates, 24k miles with extras (audio, colour coded top box with brake light, fog lights, dynamic package, keyless and cylinder protectors (value when new ~£3.5k))
I took a pictures of all the parts BMW said needed replacing and they listed the rear frame (I have been told that it was bend).
I have also argued the salvage price, because I've been told by the dealer that's too high. Didn't support it with any evidence.

Today got an answer from them:

We have received a reply from our appointed vehicle assessors and they have stated,

"We can confirm that we have now perused all available documentation and researched at length market trends and activity and feel we do not have enough evidence to justify an increased valuation. We are confident that the valuation listed within our report will allow the Claimant to suitably replace their vehicle on the open market."

With this being the case an increase will not be applied to your initial PAV offer. Regarding the other points highlighted in the initial PAV dispute email, the salvage value is a percentage and is based upon the value of the vehicle. This value is non-negotiable.

We would be more than willing to receive the images and documentation from BMW detailing the frame needs to be worked upon.

Total bollocks. Me and the dealer think that value of my bike was £11.5k.

Does anyone have any experience dealing with that kind of case? Financial Ombudsman is closed until 2 Jan, I take this as an option.
@ scrap value - I would like to negotiate it, but don't know how to support my claim. When I got hit on my Deauville the scrap was 22%, friend of mine had 10% of his car value.

[Levisp]

Sorry to hear about your crash. Its always going to be painful in one way or another. The only suggestion I can make with regards value is to try to work out a dealer to private sale ratio and apply that to your dealer values. I have always thought that buying from dealers would mean a price of £500 - £1000 more than private. This covers all their costs, servicing, valeting, warranties, overheads.


Just for interest whats the salvage figure for ?

[circlehappenork]

(...)The only suggestion I can make with regards value is to try to work out a dealer to private sale ratio and apply that to your dealer values. I have always thought that buying from dealers would mean a price of £500 - £1000 more than private. This covers all their costs, servicing, valeting, warranties, overheads.

I have spoken with the dealer, and been told that most probably I have been offered 'trade value' of my bike, but the insurance call it 'market value'. Trade value is offered when part exchanging your bike. I understand it, but I don't have a bike to px.

Just for interest whats the salvage figure for ?

If I'll decide to buy the bike back, they will deduct that much from payment to me. And I was considering buying it back and sell as parts or if the damage is really just cosmetic even to repair it.

[MacJ]

This is why dealers try to sell you GAP insurance when you buy a bike. The Insurers will pay out far less than the replacement value BUT will sell you insurance to cover the gap.


Nice little earner that. >:(

[David.]

The dealer has valued the bike at £11,500, the insurance company have offered £10,550, that's a difference of £950.

The insurance company are valuing the bike based on a private sale. Dealer bikes are sold with a 2 year warranty which costs over £400, the difference is now £550.
Without a part exchange & with cash in hand a discount of £500 on the screen price ought to be available, that's taken care of the difference between the two valuations.

Although options may enhance the value of a bike, there full (cost) value will never be realised.

My used 2012 TC had a screen price of £10,450, the invoice showed £9,770, £680 gone just like that.

The difference between the dealer valuation & insurance offer seems reasonable.

[circlehappenork]

This is why dealers try to sell you GAP insurance when you buy a bike. The Insurers will pay out far less than the replacement value BUT will sell you insurance to cover the gap.
Nice little earner that. >:(

This won't change anythin in my case, because my lease is less then their valuation. However it made me read about it and it is useful info. Thanks.

The dealer has valued the bike at £11,500, the insurance company have offered £10,550, that's a difference of £950.

The insurance company are valuing the bike based on a private sale. Dealer bikes are sold with a 2 year warranty which costs over £400, the difference is now £550.
Without a part exchange & with cash in hand a discount of £500 on the screen price ought to be available, that's taken care of the difference between the two valuations.

Although options may enhance the value of a bike, there full (cost) value will never be realised.

My used 2012 TC had a screen price of £10,450, the invoice showed £9,770, £680 gone just like that.

The difference between the dealer valuation & insurance offer seems reasonable.

The £11.5k was if I'd part exchanged it. If I'd be selling it privately I'd be looking for £12k.

[aphill24]

I recently bought a 2015 Le with dynamic pack & sat nav 12k full history BMW in excellent condition for £8600 private.

[David.]

The £11.5k was if I'd part exchanged it. If I'd be selling it privately I'd be looking for £12k.

£12,000 is more than any of the examples on the spreadsheet.

[circlehappenork]

£12,000 is more than any of the examples on the spreadsheet.

It's because none of the examples have all the extras and if I'd want them to be retrofitted I would probably pay (with labour) close to new add-on alone.

[Casbar]

I recently bought a 2015 Le with dynamic pack & sat nav 12k full history BMW in excellent condition for £8600 private.

Does that have audio - audio and top box is a 3k plus option. That is cheap, my 2014 with audio and 12k, without top box, was valued by a dealer for 9k trade in, so I would expect a little more as a private sale.

[David.]

At a part-ex price of £11,500, that's probably inflated by some discount out of the replacement model.

This website gives some ideas of Dealer, Private & Part Ex prices, https://www.thebikemarket.co.uk/bmw/tra ... rt#pricing

There is also a link to get a valuation, https://www.wewantyourmotorbike.com/?ut ... liateid=80

[circlehappenork]

@ David.

Thanks for that David. I was looking also on here http://www.wisebuyers.co.uk/motorcycles ... rices/BMW/
But in my opinion the problems with looking at websites like that are that my mileage was much higher and I had more extras than the aggregate averave value.
I don't like cold callers and I'm almost certain that if I give them my phone number I'll start having them, however I might be forced to try them out.

Coming back to the valuation I'd like to add that I was expecting them to give me better offer. That's what I read online and was told - never accept the first offer. But or they think that I need money asap or they're good at their job, which can't be blamed for (saving company money).

[David.]

When insuring the bike, were the insurers given a "market value" on which the premium was based.

[circlehappenork]

Yes. I've put £12k (cover started in May) and that's what I got on paper.

[Casbar]

When insuring the bike, were the insurers given a "market value" on which the premium was based.

Giving the insurers a value has no bearing on the final settlement, doesn't mean your going to get that. Although if you under insure something they will use that to give you less. Most insurers use a separate loss adjuster for claims, and their estimation is final. Having been here myself before with a Caterham 7 I wrote off on a track, had no bearing whatsoever on what I received, I got a lot less than it was worth and my only option was, buy it back or accept. It turned out that it would have cost me more than it was worth to accept, buy it back and re-build it, so I walked away. The added bonus I was then penalised for the next 5 years on insurance premiums, even though the accident was on a track and I had separate track insurance. You will never win, with insurance companies.