Surging, Fuel Starvation, 2006 R1200RT

[masegraves]

My bike is a 2006 R1200RT with 48,000 miles
I’ve been having a problem over the past few days that was at first intermittent, but now seems to be almost full-time. The engine acts as if it is not getting fuel. Initially it will start and run OK, but then, after riding anywhere from 1-50 miles, it will act as if it is starved for fuel, then it may either stall, or surge ahead as if fuel was restored, then repeat the process. At first this happened during the second half of a 100 miles trip, then later during a 60 mile trip. On both of these trips, the bike ran fine for a number of miles after the surging episode, although it did not seem to be running at 100% - engine seemed to run slightly rougher than usual. Yesterday the surging and stalling began right away and continued for all of a short 3 mile ride. This happens when the tank is full and when it is at ¼ full. Opening and closing the fuel cap does not seem to relieve the problem. Beyond the riding, the bike was towed on a trailer for 600 miles before and after this began. It was also ridden on a rough gravel road for about 2 miles total, so there has been more than the usual amount of vibration over the past few days. There are no warning lights or messages showing up on the dash. I have a fair amount of experience caring for a 1974 BMW R75/6, but have only had this bike since March. The little I could find in searching suggests that this may be a problem with the fuel pump or its controller. Thanks, in advance, for your help!
Mark SegravesChicago, IL, USA

[David.]

The little I could find in searching suggests that this may be a problem with the fuel pump or its controller.

Is it possible to temporarily by-pass the FPC as part of the diagnostic procedure.

Early Hexhead FPC failures seem quiet common.

R1200RT Fuel Pump Controller Replacement, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_WzH-RpiRY

Is the Fuel Pump Controller really necessary? https://www.bmwlt.com/forums/rt-series/ ... ssary.html

"I've ridden over 2000 miles without the FPC.

Mileage and performance seem unaffected.

No problems have cropped up."

[milleplod]

Thos symptoms could well be indicative of coil failure. They tend to break down and give intermittent symptoms, as you describe, although I've had one that simply failed as I switched off the engine after a fault-free ride and manifested itself at the next start-up a few days later. Try revving the engine at a standstill - listen for any popping as the revs die down, which indicates a secondary (lower) coil on its way out. It sounds to me more like a main coil going though. I'd investigate that before delving into the fpc, purely because it's easier! A failed fpc will show up on a GS911, but coils won't. And I think, but I'm not sure, that an fpc will just 'go', rather than give intermittent symptoms - certainly the ones I've heard about simply stopped working.


Pete

[David.]

Those symptoms could well be indicative of coil failure. I'd investigate that before delving into the FPC, purely because it's easier!

Have seen a couple of videos & posts on other forums where, whilst the bike is running at idle, the LT lead on each coil stick is disconnected in turn.

The theory seems to be, if disconnecting the LT lead/coil doesn't make any difference to the running of the bike, that particular coil is suspect.

2004 BMW R1150GS Ignition Stick Coils, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMJWr_BdNO8

The Haynes manual says, "In order to determine conclusively that an ignition coil is defective, it should be tested by a BMW dealer equipped with the diagnostic tester."

[milleplod]

Have seen a couple of videos & posts on other forums where, whilst the bike is running at idle, the LT lead on each coil stick is disconnected in turn.

The theory seems to be, if disconnecting the LT lead/coil doesn't make any difference to the running of the bike, that particular coil is suspect.

2004 BMW R1150GS Ignition Stick Coils, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMJWr_BdNO8

Yep, that's just how I diagnosed mine on my ST. I always carry one spare main and one of each lower, just in case, as they're so easy to swap and a failure would really spoil any trip out or away. The lowers don't really cause major issues should they fail, but a duff main one is a real pain.

Pete

[masegraves]

Thos symptoms could well be indicative of coil failure. They tend to break down and give intermittent symptoms, as you describe, although I've had one that simply failed as I switched off the engine after a fault-free ride and manifested itself at the next start-up a few days later. Try revving the engine at a standstill - listen for any popping as the revs die down, which indicates a secondary (lower) coil on its way out. It sounds to me more like a main coil going though. I'd investigate that before delving into the fpc, purely because it's easier! A failed fpc will show up on a GS911, but coils won't. And I think, but I'm not sure, that an fpc will just 'go', rather than give intermittent symptoms - certainly the ones I've heard about simply stopped working.


Pete

Thanks. I have a spare main coil, so this will be easy to try.

[masegraves]

Check with GS-911 reveals:

3 fault codes found:

10167    Output stage to Electric Fuel Pump faulty (Most likely: Fuel pump electronics/driver)
The fault is not present now.

10168    Electric Fuel Pump System faulty
The fault is not present now.

10098    Tank Venting Valve defective
The fault is currently present.

Does this mean that the tank venting valve should be replaced?
Is  13 90 1 433 603    FUEL TANK BREATHER VALVE the correct part?

Or, could the breather valve problem be related to a fuel pump controller issue?

[David.]

Is this thread from Adventure Rider https://advrider.com/f/threads/wtf-is-a ... ve.732481/ any help.

Some folks have removed the valve & charcoal canister, then claim the bike runs fine without.

[masegraves]

Very helpful. Thanks. My bike is actually attached to a sidecar so, as suggested further down in the ADV Rider post, it could be that the charcoal canister was removed and the valve disconnected. This weekend, I'll take the side panel off and have a look. I do wonder if the Tank Vent issue is in some way related to the fuel pump problem, since the ADV post mentions that carbon from the canister can get into the fuel tank and damage the pump.

[David.]

In this video, the fuel pump is removed to service the invisible fuel filter, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdyHT3pGm_A

If the fuel pump is damaged, it may be helpful info.

[Sprintgull]

When this happens after a few miles, I'd usually say open the fuel cap and if there's any sign of vacuum (you can usually here it as the air rushes into the tank) then it is the breather.  You may already be past this stage, but you never know.....

[masegraves]

I've opened the fuel cap several times after this happened. There never appeared to be any vacuum. My plan now is to clear the fault codes and see what comes back. At a minimum, I think I will need to replace the fuel pump controller which should arrive in the mail today.

[Carlisja]

Your description and the GS911 readings clearly indicate a problem with the fuel pump controller.  You can jumper it out or just replace it.  Replacement is an easy task once the plastics are out of the way.

[masegraves]

I checked into this problem this past weekend. For the vent valve, the valve and canister had been removed by a previous owner, so that explains the vent valve malfunction code. The fuel pump controller appeared to be original, and I replaced that with a new one. Rode the bike 52 miles yesterday, and all is good. Even when it was not surging/stalling, the bike did not seem to be running 100% before I replaced the controller. Maybe it was always a little starved for fuel. Now its running great and I'm happy to have this problem resolved. I'll use the connector from the fuel pump controller that I removed to make the emergency fuel pump voltage supply cable. Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and help with this issue!

Mark Segraves
Chicago, IL
BMW MOA #214587

2006 R1200RT with Hannigan Dual Sport Sidecar
1974 R75/6