Tested cheap Chinese copy parts

[jackronner]

Doctor T, Well, this is me rueing the day I ordered a set of these bars from China. They appear identical to yours and at a comparable price (I thought), but stay away from the seller Lookie Store. Though the page says “front and rear bars“ and all of the photos show front and rear, only the front bars arrived. Now the seller says that it should have to be purchased and shipped separately, and that I only ordered the front. Similar deal to yours, with $150 shipping, so they want, essentially another $200 above the 217 I’ve already paid just for the rear bars! Best I can figure, when you select a little tile for color selection, it operates as a selection of either front and rear, as an order itself. Needless to say, I’m initiating a refund/return, but it’s not clear whether or not I shall recoup the $150. I’m convinced that the seller inflates the shipping charges so that he can keep the lion share of that if he hast to refund the purchase price. Very dastardly, I even offered to pay the full $48 price for the rears if they shipped it, literally, by sea, and they said that it would be even more expensive than air freight. Hot steaming piles of bullshit. I’ll let you know if I get any satisfaction out of it AliExpress, in case you use them in the future.

[jackronner]

Forgot to mention that the bolts attaching to the upper engine block are M5's, and to the oil pan are M8's. I don't know if they would even withstand a static fall without snapping off. Was that the same as the bars you bought?

[Doctor T]

Yes, the same. In my testing, the bars withstand being used as they are meant for. Cheekily i did contact the German company and they said that they use M5 and M8 bolts. The sump bolts are used for GS sump guards as well

[jackronner]

Doctor T, I took a look at some of the Wunderlich and Motored front bars, and none of them had the under the sump frame which the bar iss attached to. It seems that they attached to with much larger bolts directly to the frame behind the front foot pegs. Not sure where the upper part attached.

[David.]

I took a look at some of the Wunderlich and Motored front bars and none of them had the under the sump frame which the bar is attached to.

https://www.wunderlich.de/shop/en/bmw-r ... 0-001.html

[Doctor T]

The sump frame is the only way to fit the bars

[jackronner]

Dr. T and David, Yeah, those bars look exactly like the ones I got, and I don’t know which German bars I saw online. I gave up on trying to get the rear bars they had promised, and accepted AliExpress’ solution of a refund of 1/2 of the price, including shipping. I immediately tried to fit the bars and when it came to installing the left cylinder guard the three lower bolt holes were about 1/2 inch off line. The right bar looks as if it might line up, but I will have to deform the left one before it will fit. What a lovely experience, so I think I’m swearing off buying from China, especially with their “slow boat from China“ delivery.

BTW, I’ve just arranged for the rental of a V Strom 650 for a month beginning in May for my tour through Britain and France. Preferable for the shorter distances and the city traffic than NRT. Is filtering through lanes of traffic permitted in the UK? Always has been in California, and now three other states have legalized it!

Mercifully, I will be arriving just after the coronation. I was there in London when his mum’s coronation stole my thunder on my third birthday, so I refuse to be victimized again!

[Doctor T]

Fit the bars loose, then wiggle the lot and everything will line up. They are easier to fit if you have a bike ramp but properly you had to lay on the floor like me.

[Glacial]

BTW, I’ve just arranged for the rental of a V Strom 650 for a month beginning in May for my tour through Britain and France. Preferable for the shorter distances and the city traffic than NRT. Is filtering through lanes of traffic permitted in the UK? Always has been in California, and now three other states have legalized it!

Mercifully, I will be arriving just after the coronation. I was there in London when his mum’s coronation stole my thunder on my third birthday, so I refuse to be victimized again!

Filtering is legal in the UK and is often necessary on certain roads. Be aware that the roads tend to be a bit narrower than in the States, reducing the space for filtering.

[Dr. Montaño]

Interesting thread.

The first chinese part I bought was a replacement rear brake plate. The original lasted about 10K KM on my new agency bought R1200RT 2015 because I forgot to change the pads. The chinese one has beent there for another 70K KM and looks fine. The quality of the steel and build looked just fine to me when I swaped them. It has gone extremely hot and been subject to everything they would be and there is absolutely no difference with the front plates that I can detect. The design is a little different than the original though.

Same for the tire pressure sensors. The set, wake up tool and OBDLink and adapter and APP all together cost less than the original sensors which lasted less than a year when I bought the bike new. Now I change them occasionally when I change tires at very little cost.

My experience with chineese "knock offs" as they seem to be called often is that they can be just as good for a fraction of the cost or total rubish. One really has to study before ordering, because refunds and returns are not really practical, plus deliver takes so long.

Regarding the whole moral / ideological / ethical debate here is more interesting to me. It is a part of my area of interest (in work).

The truth is that historically major companies, such as BMW and others, have been quite happy to copy designs, even previously registered or patented and have even gone on to patent them themselves and legally battle the original designers out of existance, when it is convenient. For example, if they are not sold the patent at a price they as buyers decide is adequate (for themselves). Major companies have been happy to copy any and every type of design and technology, whomever is affected. Big companies are in the business of making money and when the time comes they can and have historically repurpused their factories, design centres and everything else to produce and sell whatever else is more profitable. Arms. Drugs. Whatever. Only state control, legislation and the law, which they also fight and manage to change to their advantage very often, can keep them in check. Business is business in whatever country.

The public in some more democratic countries, where the population is more active and willing and able to put pressure on government and private enterprise when they are destroying jobs, nature or whatever because it is part of making money, is the only thing that can moderate what is done. Block the most damaging actions, such as outright slavery, destruction of territory and natural resourses or whatever. As previously stated here, the China is doing the same thing that historically not only Japan and others have done in the past 100 years, but also the US, Germany and many other countries have done even before, mostly in order to strengthen their industry and economy.

Patents and copyrights do not in practice protect the original designers and authors: If they are lucky, they will receive a tiny proportion of the money their idea or work generates. From the start patents and copyrights were immediately converted into a strategy under control of large companies for business. Designs, tecnologies and publications of any kind are bought cheap and then exploited by large companies, which in effect block diversity, creativity and competition, because monopolies and cartels or simple agreements among them and also campaigns to convince the public in any way possible to in effect protect them is usually better business.

So yes, it is great when whe can be ethical, moral and put our convictions in practice to defend whomever is being negatively affected. However, buying cheap parts from China or from anywhere, which are of good quality and save us money, is good business for us. It also generates healthy competition, whereas defending the business model of enourmous companies does not necesarilly help us, individually or collectively, unless one is in their employment. And even then.

I hope my considerationgs are food for thought. (But I do hope they don't bothery anyone.)

Happy and safe riding.

[Doctor T]

Chinese parts are not copies, They are a homage to an original part. As most on here know i buy a lot of Chinese farkles for my bike. To date ive found the quality as good as the parts that come from the major manufacturers that can cost up to 5 times more. You just have to be careful and do your homework. The same goes for when i owned a Himalayan. I bought lots of bits and pieces from India.
Chinese and Indian manufacturing is so good these days that many bike and car manufacturers either have their vehicles built there or supply many OE parts.
99% of biking clothing comes from China or Pakistan, just look at the labels on your bike kit.

As for Patents and copyrights these are easy to get around. Just make some small changes from the original design and you are not liable for a breach of copyright. When are Oxford Uni we designed and copyrighted a quick release bracket to mount torches, goggles, etc for the MOD helmets. 8 years later a well known action camera manufacturer produced a mount very similar. We took them to the copyright court. After thousands of pounds, The judgment was dropped. It was concluded their design was very like ours except for two points. 1. They slightly changed the attachment side arms where their product would attach slide on to and they had rounded the base plate and turned it 90 degrees. The committee agreed that If the company didn't adjust our "DESIGN" and made it from Alloy and not plastic the Uni would have won the case.
Just for reference. The first full face helmet design was registered by design but as these became fashionable and as time went on more and more companies started manufacturing full face helmets, they changed some fixings and the size of the aperture to the face area. The court cases brought by the first company were all thrown off due to the changes.