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Re: Luddites
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:15 pm
by gogs01
Ganesh wrote:
I'm all for adding stuff that makes life easier, ..... I quite like my car as it has dipping rear view mirror, automatic windscreen wipers and lights, cruise control (not adaptive),electric windows, built in sat-nav, radio/cd, two sd card slots, central locking .......
Me too - my car also has auto stop/start, auto handbrake, auto gearbox ..... On the infotainment side I can set the maximum volume when the radio comes on, amongst many of the menu options ..... If you learned to drive in this car you'd be able to set up your mobile phone, but you would have a lot to learn if you wanted to drive a "conventional" car.
Re: Luddites
Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:30 am
by B787MECH
tda2806 wrote:
Surely what we are discussing here would be more correctly referred to as technophobia, rather than luddism or even neo-luddism. There is no rule that an increase in functionality leads to a corresponding increase in unreliability, in fact I can think of many examples where the reverse is true and it may be that adding clutchless gear change will improve the overall reliability! It seems strange to me that we have purchased a premium product by choice and yet are willing to argue that anything added as an OEM option will decrease it's quality.
I don't think I'm a "technophobe" when I wonder about the long term (5yrs+) reliability of my 2017 LC. As an engineer and motorcyclist for the past 40yrs what I see is a gradual move to increasing complexity and sophistication (seven settings on your ABS/Traction Control on some bikes???) driven by manufacturers that enables them to charge more for their products and services. Owners are happy because they get bikes with all the bells and whistles and with PCP (leasing) etc can afford them and don't intend to keep them long, usually not past the warranty period. How many owners actually keep there bikes for 5yrs+ and do their own maintenance and repairs nowadays? Not many I would suggest. I hear of cars and bikes being scrapped for single items being faulty (ABS pumps, ECU's, Electronic suspension etc) due to the expense.
I recently hired a 6 yr old 1200rt in NZ that had about 50,000 miles on the clock and ran well apart from jumping out of gear occasionally. When I asked the owner whether the items such as the radio, cruise control, alarm etc worked they told me the they hadn't worked for a while and were too expensive to fix. I wasnt worried as I wouldn't use them anyway but It does illustrate my point though. According to 'Honest John' of the Telegraph Motoring newspaper the design life of a car is now 7 yrs, which means they're not expected to last any longer! If that's not 'Built-In Obsolescence' what is?
All of this didn't put me off buying an new LC, but did stop me buying some of the unnecessary crap (or should I say essential extras......delete as appropriate!).
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Re: Luddites
Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:31 pm
by Casbar
B787MECH wrote:
I don't think I'm a "technophobe" when I wonder about the long term (5yrs+) reliability of my 2017 LC. As an engineer and motorcyclist for the past 40yrs what I see is a gradual move to increasing complexity and sophistication (seven settings on your ABS/Traction Control on some bikes???) driven by manufacturers that enables them to charge more for their products and services. Owners are happy because they get bikes with all the bells and whistles and with PCP (leasing) etc can afford them and don't intend to keep them long, usually not past the warranty period. How many owners actually keep there bikes for 5yrs+ and do their own maintenance and repairs nowadays? Not many I would suggest. I hear of cars and bikes being scrapped for single items being faulty (ABS pumps, ECU's, Electronic suspension etc) due to the expense.
I recently hired a 6 yr old 1200rt in NZ that had about 50,000 miles on the clock and ran well apart from jumping out of gear occasionally. When I asked the owner whether the items such as the radio, cruise control, alarm etc worked they told me the they hadn't worked for a while and were too expensive to fix. I wasnt worried as I wouldn't use them anyway but It does illustrate my point though. According to 'Honest John' of the Telegraph Motoring newspaper the design life of a car is now 7 yrs, which means they're not expected to last any longer! If that's not 'Built-In Obsolescence' what is?
All of this didn't put me off buying an new LC, but did stop me buying some of the unnecessary crap (or should I say essential extras......delete as appropriate!).
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yes the good old days, I remember my Triumph Bonny in the early 70s, what a wonderful reliable bike that was. Oh no it wasn't it was a heap of sh1t.
Luddites
Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:34 pm
by B787MECH
Casbar wrote:
Yes the good old days, I remember my Triumph Bonny in the early 70s, what a wonderful reliable bike that was. Oh no it wasn't it was a heap of sh1t.
Oh dear, you haven't grasped what I'm talking about have you. Let's have another try.......how many LC owners on this forum do their own maintenance and intend to keep their bike more than 5 years?
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Re: Luddites
Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:59 pm
by Casbar
B787MECH wrote:
Oh dear, you haven't grasped what I'm talking about have you. Let's have another try.......how many LC owners on this forum do their own maintenance and intend to keep their bike more than 5 years?
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Whatever, your far to bright for me!
Re: Luddites
Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:26 am
by jackronner
As I said above, I've never owned a cell phone, but I'm not a technophobe. Back in the 80's they were called "brick" phones, and I (accurately) foresaw the death of privacy and solitude, another "brick in the wall". That the desolate, remote places in nature that we on our bikes seem to seek out would be anathema to future generations, because they couldn't get a signal!! The modern phobia: being unplugged, unconnected, bboooorrrrreeedddd by being alone with no phone! Look at everyone sleepwalking through life, so mesmerized the elsewhere of their screens that they're ironically alone and oblivious to the people and the world around them, alone in a crowd. That being said, I gotta admit I'm looking forward to not being a slave to a wall outlet to recharge my laptop (got to see those ballgames).
But I like my bike's tech. It's the first "modern" bike I've had. I've had only one mad braking experience on an ABS bike, and was amazed and thankful for having avoided having my rear wheel trying to get ahead of the front wheel. I'll gladly give up messing with carbs and look forward to needing the heated accessories. The electric windshield works a treat, and is great to be able to lower it on a hot day. But it didn't 'alf make me laugh when I realized that my bike could tell an enquiring passerby the time and ambient temperature!
Re: Luddites
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:20 am
by David.
I own a TC, do most of my own maintenance & it's more than 5 years old.
Re: Luddites
Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:40 pm
by simbo
David. wrote:
I own a TC, do most of my own maintenance & it's more than 5 years old.
+1. I do all my own maintenance and repairs, same on the Harley too, probably going to keep both these bikes for the next seven years now, then I'll trade them both for a new Triumph Bonneville which I'll also maintain myself and keep until my kids inherit it
Re: Luddites
Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:19 pm
by Ganesh
I do tend to agree that sometimes the myriad of microprocessors that fiddle with everything does contribute to reliability problems. Particularly when they are intermittent, only that plugging a diagnostic computer and reading error codes does not always get to the problem. Worse case is when there is no error code and the techy can't work it out as he was only trained on computer. Mine is now coming to 30k which isn't too much and is 7 years old, not intending to change it until the residual value is down to the cost of a dinner, if it is still going (touch wood). I tend to change cars when the electrics start to play up as that throws most techies, no error codes, last one was 12 years old and 140k, the one before was 198k and 16 years old.
