Learning the RT #5 - Counter-Steering & Overtaking Practice

[simbo]

Not quite the same thing, the police riders are expected to commentate on what they see as they are doing their riding to ensure they have spotted everything. Car on offside junction adjust speed and move for maximum visibility etc

This has probably been forced upon them for legal reasons.

[Sprintgull]

Interesting vid again!  Support the comments above, but didn't see anything too shabby there.  It all comes with practice and then you can do things like countersteering without really thinking about it.  For me, unless I'm 'making progress' counter steering is fairly passive, more about just resisting the bars natural tendency to turn in as you lean the bike.  Keep riding, it's the best way to sharpen those skills.

[guest5111]

I'm in northants also in the IAM, see you on Jan 7th at all seasons cafe for the chilly willy ride in aid of air ambulance?

Probably not, as I'm not confident riding in a group yet! Certainly in the future though. Look forward to meeting you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[guest5111]

Interesting vid again!  Support the comments above, but didn't see anything too shabby there.  It all comes with practice and then you can do things like countersteering without really thinking about it.  For me, unless I'm 'making progress' counter steering is fairly passive, more about just resisting the bars natural tendency to turn in as you lean the bike.  Keep riding, it's the best way to sharpen those skills.

Thanks for the encouragement Sprintgull. All learning is messy, the trick is to pick out the good stuff and try to repeat it. Certainly stirred up a debate anyway! Every comment valued.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[kiki]

I think you are riding well after being away from it for so long. I also think you are on the right track -- planned courses and a lot of seat time will serve to dramatically improve both your confidence and your comfort with the bike.
You are clearly attentive to the task at hand, so match that with a bit of emergency maneuvering training that you will soon get and you will grow as a safe rider.
BTW-- are you riding in the Salisbury area? the reason i ask is because those roads look familiar to me.

[Casbar]

I think you are riding well after being away from it for so long. I also think you are on the right track -- planned courses and a lot of seat time will serve to dramatically improve both your confidence and your comfort with the bike.
You are clearly attentive to the task at hand, so match that with a bit of emergency maneuvering training that you will soon get and you will grow as a safe rider.
BTW-- are you riding in the Salisbury area? the reason i ask is because those roads look familiar to me.

Earlier in the thread, he said he was in the Northants area, think Salisbury might be a bit far for a quick ride I am in Salisbury, but don't make vids

[kiki]

ah yes! i see that now. You brits are blessed with gorgeous twisty roads, even when the land is flat. I ride in the New Forest, and I find that the traffic in the south can be horrendous, even in the country side. Once i hit Oxford, it seems (to my simple Canadian brain) it lightens a bit.

[guest5111]

Earlier in the thread, he said he was in the Northants area, think Salisbury might be a bit far for a quick ride I am in Salisbury, but don't make vids

Hi Kiki, no in the Midlands, probably 2 hours north of Salisbury. A visit is certainly planned to ancient Wessex as I'm an archaeology buff too, and love that part of the world. I'm focusing on rides of typically 90 mins at the mo, as this is about the limit of my concentration - everything is still new to me. I'll extend into half-days, then full days probably after I've had IAM training.

[kiki]

One comment I meant to mention in my reply above was bar grip. I am a competitive rider in road racing, enduro, and now trials. IN every discipline i have attended numerous clinics and training schools. They all have a few things in common, one of them relating to grip on the bars. You made a reference to your grip puppies in the video. I would add to that the need to have a light grip on the bars at all times. In road racing they have us "tickle" the levers whenever we get the superman grip going -- especially deep in corners (where we had to ride one handed, believe it or not) this  avoided wobbles and smoothed out corner transitions. For Enduro racing, they remind us to "envision playing a piano" and wiggle our fingers during races to avoid arm pump and fatigue. and in trials they have us "pet the levers" to calm our grip.
I had to learn over the years to grip the bike with my lower body and rely on my hands for control and less for "hanging on". My lap times dropped even though it felt as though i was riding slower. On the dirt-bikes my control increased as my arms don't fatigue like they used to.
In order to make that switch i had to hit the gym , and exercise hard ( i constantly fight the battle of the bulge) . My torso and leg strength has increased as a result. The side benefit is increased riding stamina across the board for all the bikes.

[guest5111]

One comment I meant to mention in my reply above was bar grip. I am a competitive rider in road racing, enduro, and now trials. IN every discipline i have attended numerous clinics and training schools. They all have a few things in common, one of them relating to grip on the bars. You made a reference to your grip puppies in the video. I would add to that the need to have a light grip on the bars at all times. In road racing they have us "tickle" the levers whenever we get the superman grip going -- especially deep in corners (where we had to ride one handed, believe it or not) this  avoided wobbles and smoothed out corner transitions. For Enduro racing, they remind us to "envision playing a piano" and wiggle our fingers during races to avoid arm pump and fatigue. and in trials they have us "pet the levers" to calm our grip.
I had to learn over the years to grip the bike with my lower body and rely on my hands for control and less for "hanging on". My lap times dropped even though it felt as though i was riding slower. On the dirt-bikes my control increased as my arms don't fatigue like they used to.
In order to make that switch i had to hit the gym , and exercise hard ( i constantly fight the battle of the bulge) . My torso and leg strength has increased as a result. The side benefit is increased riding stamina across the board for all the bikes.

Sounds like riding a horse then? Steering with your legs but the fine control with a light touch of the hands? Id assess myself currently as 95% hands cllinging on for life and 5% legs. Thanks for the advice.

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

[Ganesh]

Hi, I returned to bikes after a 30plus year break, only I took a day refresher before I bought one. Extremely useful as the first couple of hours is going through the manoeuvres expected in the test and then a couple of hours on the road with the instructor giving feedback through the headset.
You mentioned that it was only 2C, word of caution the side of the road you were on is in the shade and if overnight temperatures had beeen below zero the likelyhood is the shadow of the hedgerow would have left icy patches. I have noticed that in the roads around me, through tree cover and water run-offs in the shade the ice doesn't usualy melt.
Although would recommend sticking to main roads while it's this cold as they get gritted. The other added hazard round me are farm vehicles deposting contents of the field onto the road.
[size=2px]Keep practising and keep the rubber between you and the black stuff.[/size]

[guest5111]

Hi, I returned to bikes after a 30plus year break, only I took a day refresher before I bought one. Extremely useful as the first couple of hours is going through the manoeuvres expected in the test and then a couple of hours on the road with the instructor giving feedback through the headset.
You mentioned that it was only 2C, word of caution the side of the road you were on is in the shade and if overnight temperatures had beeen below zero the likelyhood is the shadow of the hedgerow would have left icy patches. I have noticed that in the roads around me, through tree cover and water run-offs in the shade the ice doesn't usualy melt.
Although would recommend sticking to main roads while it's this cold as they get gritted. The other added hazard round me are farm vehicles deposting contents of the field onto the road.
[size=2px]Keep practising and keep the rubber between you and the black stuff.[/size]

Good advice Ganesh, thanks for dropping in on the debate. I suspect there are lots of 'back to the bike' bikers out there, that's why I set up the channel. Hopefully it acts as a lightning rod to help like-minded folks chat about a safe and enjoyable journey back. Take your point about freezing surfaces too.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[OOF]

I've been following your threads and your "interesting"approach to learning the RT. A lot of very helpful comments. As others have said it seems you are working from Roadcraft or How to be an Advanced Rider. Riding is learning, but coaching is the way forward. The IAM or ROSPA route is a good choice. If you get M out on the social rides you will be riding with peers with a common game plan; to be a better rider. You videos    may be helping you but videos from someone following you (an Observer) will help identify what you are doing well and what could be changed or improved. As a (retired) IAM Observer, It was a revelation for the rider to be shown playback. Commentary through bike to bike intercom is hugely valuable especially if done well by your coach when you are following him/her, it brings another dimension to a demonstration ride. Get out with your Observer, practice and ride with your peers. Keep a light grip, relaxed arms and enjoy the ride. By the way; great choice of bike!

[guest5111]

Thanks for the insights. Totally agree this is the way, and very much part of the plan. Funnily enough, books haven't been my primary source although I have read both (Police and IAM logbook) cover to cover - most of it is Youtube advanced riding video such as MCRider and Nottingham Roadcraft, added to many conversations with practitioners over social media. I mind-map it all and review after before and after each ride, which has a specific objective. My videos were never meant to replace a third-party view, but as a fun project whose purpose was to help me reflect on each ride, help other 'back to bikers' through th eprocess, and gain feedback. It's not an either/or situation, but a both/and solution. It's working well with lots of help coming in via the Youtube comments sections, but obviously can't replace a dedicated IAM observed ride. [size=78%]I didn't want to get an observed ride too early though, as I'd like to bring at least a modicum of ability on the RT to the party to get full value from those sessions. I suppose I'm a little different from the average IAM 'customer', in that it's so long since I've ridden. [size=78%]I'm getting there, and once the cold snap is over I'll be in touch with IAM to do just that. I note your advice about the grip / steering - easier said than done ![/size][/size]

[OOF]

You are going to be surprised; there's no average bike rider, and there's no generic IAM  Associate. It takes all sorts, which is a great thing about the biking community.
Don't try too hard, relax it'll will come. It's all all about conditioned responses. Keep off the metal drain covers in the dry and you'll automatically avoid them in the wet.


Have fun.