BMW R1200RT/R1250RT Forum

Graham88 wrote: I don't see the big difference to be honest, you take the smallest cars on our roads vs. the biggest bikes and the whole footprint argument starts to lose potency. Whatever vehicle I happen to be in I select the appropriate position, speed and gear based on all the available information to leave me in the safest possible state (and 'me' includes my property). For me at least this does include blocking vehicles in certain circumstances, otherwise in town I would ride more position 1 than 2, after all being further away from oncoming traffic has to be safer?

To be honest, this isn't going anywhere, you think you are correct so that is that I just had a look at my latest IAM and Roadcraft books, there is no such thing as position 1 and 2, so not sure how long ago that was taught. Roadcraft in the Positioning chapter, now advocate 3 main positions, nearside, centre and offside. So in slow traffic I normally travel between centre and offside, depending on oncoming traffic, that way I am not hidden and can assess any opportunities to move forward, assuming nobody takes the hump and tries to block me

Position 1 & 2 is still used in the Manchester area IAM courses. Courses may use different terminology but you think you are correct so that's that 


Next you'll be telling us that the "1 elephant 2 elephant " isn't enough space when following the vehicle in front 

michaelc2710 wrote: Position 1 & 2 is still used in the Manchester area IAM courses. Courses may use different terminology but you think you are correct so that's that 


Next you'll be telling us that the "1 elephant 2 elephant " isn't enough space when following the vehicle in front 

I  only remember  5 positions from years ago, where 3 was central of your lane, but not familiar with 1 and 2, but as I said its not mentioned anymore in the IAM Motorcycle manual or Roadcraft, so I can't comment. Not quite sure what I'm correct about, thought the discussion was around moving around in traffic in a car and moving to block the progress of other road users if you felt it wasn't safe for them to pass. But as I said its not going anywhere and will quickly develop into a slagging match as normal with these threads, so I'm going to but out

Most drivers in UK today would struggle to pass a DVLA driving test and have no Knowledge of IAM, Roadcraft, ROSPA or even empathy or consideration for other road users.


When stuck in a long tail-back, most drivers do not consider the possibility of vehicles appearing alongside them and may decide on a whim to change lanes without checking their mirrors.


My experience while filtering on a bike is that drivers who do see you approaching may move right, move left or stay exactly where they are.  I try not to judge but also try to show appreciation for those drivers who move to make my life easier.


If anyone feels I may be putting myself or their car in danger, indicating or turning a wheel in my direction will usually be sufficient to stop me, without them having to physically block my path, which always feels like an antagonistic move.


Many years ago, I found my path blocked by a car and was then able to move lanes so that I found myself sitting next to the driver's door.  When I looked in, the driver was staring at me, shouting words which I, fortunately, couldn't hear and banging his fist on the steering wheel.  He was absolutely purple with rage and I feared he might have a heart attack.  He hadn't tried to block me for my safety or that of his car, he was just furious that I wasn't queuing when he had to.  I did wonder if he would volunteer to sit out in the cold and rain when HE didn't have to .....

It’s about respect, courtesy and understanding what is around you.  Checking mirrors often not only lets you know what’s behind you, but shows you actually care too


Attitudes on roads is dangerous.  We as bikers thank drivers who make it easier for us, riders who don’t and have that attitude, says it all...but majority of us are appreciative and grateful...


But just as a driver would give way to large vehicles, which are difficult to manoeuvre in narrowing roads ...unless we ride a trike, quad or custom cruiser..., we are relatively very small....  my Vulcan 900 was 4ft wide at the bar ends...I could not filter always...


I still think we should be allowed to use the hard shoulder during congestion only. 

Here in California, filtering has always been allowed (the only state in the union), and they recently took the surprising step of making it explicitly legal.  Yet even some cops don't know this, and I took to carrying the driver's handbook with me.  Many car drivers are either inexplicably ignorant on filtering, or are just frustrated and envious, not to mention totally lacking in driving skills and road awareness.  They exist (as do pedestrians) in their own bubble of "My Space dot not so calm" and are generally oblivious.  Worse even than the purposely obstructive drivers are the asshole bikers who go screaming between the cars at max volume.  They foster anger and vengeful feellings that are taken out on the next biker.  My impression whilst riding in Europe was they were much more biker friendly -  none of the Hell's Angels image of bikers over there. 


I particularly admired the European model of extending the leg as a thank you.  Very intelligent and safer alternative to the US practice of the off-the-bars hand wave.  I hope that this practice is being taught in motorcycle driving schools.  I am trying to spread it over here, but it does have the possible look of someone lifting a leg like a dog taking a pee on the passed driver! 


I tell young riders:  Don't be A-hole.  Meaning, make yourself visible to anticipated turns across your lane or changing of lanes by moving to either side of the car in front of you so the turning driver doesn't think that there is "A-hole" between cars and ram you.  To this end, while I generally position myself in the lane as far away from potential lane changers, etc. on the motorway, I will periodically move closer to the slower lane and "paint it" with my high beam (during the day - which I always have on while daytime filtering) to hopefully give them an awareness that I'm there.


Something that hasn't been mentioned is the growing prevalence of larger, taller vehicles such as SUV's and pick-ups, and the use of tinted windows.  It effectually blocks everybody's view of traffic ahead and behind.  Used to be you could look thru the windows of the sedan in front to see brake lights, tail-gating, etc. to give you some advance awareness and warning.  Even when they're just parked on a corner, you have to be halfway into the intersection before you can see around them to see if there's a car coming.  I HATE them things!

Some good points Jack.


I don’t lift my leg lol.  That does seem odd.  But I do either nod my head or lift my hand I a half wave.  Thumb still under grip.