BMW R1200RT/R1250RT Forum

michaelc2710 wrote:Ones mapped and one isn't.

Wrong

michaelc2710 wrote:I'm not very good at this game am I.

No

Casbar wrote:But the uploading a map that nobody else can see and one size fits all is a little no, more than a little hard to believe, but I will never go there, so not my concern.

Casbar wrote:It's not so much about power, but more drivability, as the standard map on the LC is lean. I have only read good reports from owners that have had a remap by Hilltop.

Have a read on UKGSER about the LC Map, there are as many who have found no difference to those who "believe" things have improved. If you look at it logically, Hilltop, have managed to put a one size fits all map into the ECU, that nobody else can find, bikes that have had the magic map have been independently tested on other dynos, the ECU has been read and there is no map. The magic map, doesn't take into account the open or closed loop, it just adjusts feeling, which your ECU will do anyway. Just look at the facts, rather than believe the Hilltop fan club.


I do agree the older bikes maps can be adjusted, but not the LC by an upload of a secret map. But that is just my view of course, if you want to part with your hard eared that is your decision. Like I said, I have had extensive experience of mapping both bikes and cars, so for me its all too unbelievable. Also Hilltop are a sponsor on UKGSER, so there is a big fanbase on their and most naysayers are shouted down. go figure.

Casbar wrote:I do agree the older bikes maps can be adjusted, but not the LC by an upload of a secret map.

RTLC Remapped, viewtopic.php?t=8

David. wrote: RTLC Remapped, /viewtopic.php?t=8

Look, we can play ping pong all day, if you believe it, if others believe they have had their bikes remapped fine, the dyno runs done at Hilltop can be adjusted. Just look at the independent evidence, have a look at the videos of a supposedly remapped 1250 vs the standard bike done at an independent tuning company, these can be found on the treetop tuning facebook page, which is run by a group of recognised tuners who think Hilltop are scamming customers. Make up your own mind, I don't really care, I'll never go near the place

The majority of positive posts on this forum about Hilltop remapping have been from owners of pre-LC RT's, including myself.

Those fewer LC owners have had early models, but still been satisfied with the results.

Dyno runs are probably for vanity or bragging rights, most owners are just looking to have the AFR corrected to make the bike nicer to ride, which it does.

Hilltop themselves have said that with the more modern bikes, "there is not much to be gained from stock".

The discussion mainly seems to be surrounding LC's not pre-LC bikes, mine is a 2012 Camhead.

Have Treetop etc. themselves been able to remap LC's with a positive outcome, rather than just slag off Hilltop.

David. wrote: The majority of positive posts on this forum about Hilltop remapping have been from owners of pre-LC RT's, including myself.

Those fewer LC owners have had early models, but still been satisfied with the results.

Dyno runs are probably for vanity or bragging rights, most owners are just looking to have the AFR corrected to make the bike nicer to ride, which it does.

Hilltop themselves have said that with the more modern bikes, "there is not much to be gained from stock".

The discussion mainly seems to be surrounding LC's not pre-LC bikes, mine is a 2012 Camhead.

Have Treetop etc. themselves been able to remap LC's with a positive outcome, rather than just slag off Hilltop.

If you read every one of my posts, I have been saying the main bone of contention is with LC bikes and not older models. When the LC bikes that have been Hiiltopped are put on another dyno (not Hilltops) the AFR is found not to have been changed one iota, power which is not what its all about, hasn't changed one iota. Some have had their bikes dyno before Hilltop by an independent operator, taken the bike to Hilltop and then taken it back to the original dyno operator, result, no change, they have even had the ECU analysed, nothing on it, nothing different from standard. But like I keep saying, its anyones personal choice and their money. I would want absolute proof, not seat of the pants dyno or believe Hilltop dyno

David. wrote:Have Treetop etc. themselves been able to remap LC's with a positive outcome, rather than just slag off Hilltop.

Casbar wrote:The dyno runs done at Hilltop can be adjusted.

Can the independent operator dyno runs be adjusted?

David. wrote: Can the independent operator dyno runs be adjusted?

Ok, last post on this as this is getting tiresome, are you sure your not RTMan10 in disguise. Tree Top is not one tuner, they are a group of very highly respected tuners in the motorcycle tuning business. So the verification of the Hilltop tuning (again on the LC only), has been carried out at different businesses. They got together as they rightly or wrongly are fed up the claims Hilltop have been making, so set out to test if this map is actually real or not. If they are wrong, why hasn't Hilltop tried to take legal action against them, they have offered on several occasions to have their day in court, but nothing but silence.


Now once again just to be absolutely clear - I don't care, I am just pointing out that there is a ton of evidence that this could be snake oil. If anyone is interested, do your own research, there is a lot of technical views on UKGSER around this, although you may have to be a member to see as the discussions were moved to a members only area (again because Hilltop are linked at the hip with the guy who runs the UKGSER forum). Off out to enjoy the sun now

Thank you for your input & debate. I'm now reassured that all these reported issues with Hilltop only relate to LC's.

David. wrote: Thank you for your input & debate. I'm now reassured that all these reported issues with Hilltop only relate to LC's.

They'll have conned everyone who been there. 

There is a very well respected member of an RT forum on FB.  He is ex-military and runs a motorcycle dispatch business. His knowledge of RT’s is phenomenal.  I asked him about the Hilltop remap and he he stated that he owned on standard camhead and one with a Hilltop remap (done by a previous owner).  He states that he cannot tell the difference. 


Anyway, back to lockdown cleaning.  I have paid more attention to the nitty gritty on our bikes than usual as I have time on my hands.  I decided that I would try to reduce the blueing on my downpipes with Blue Job.  I discovered two things.  Firstly, Blue Job is not particularly effective - even when a Dremmel was employed.  The second discovery was that my downpipes Jane rust on them. 


I have ordered a B&D Workmate and will, over the next few weeks, remove the downpipes and try to remove the rust using Solvol Autosol. 


There are a couple of other areas that need looking at - for example, the hydraulic fittings to the rear brake are also corroding.  Being anal with my bikes I will do something about it at some point.  I have already had the front lower fairing stays and centre stand powder coated because they rusted. 


I love my RT and they way it rides but they are not the best built bikes out there are they?

MEM62 wrote:I asked him about the Hilltop remap and he stated that he owned one standard Camhead and one with a Hilltop remap (done by a previous owner).
He states that he cannot tell the difference.

Did you not bother getting yours done.

MEM62 wrote:I have already had the centre stand powder coated because it rusted.

How did you get on removing & replacing the centre stand. I looked at it and thought how do you replace the springs.
Seem to remember mentioning it to a BMW dealer, their reply was, it's a right chew on, leave it alone.

What happened to spotting the difference(s) between the two RT's on page 2.

David. wrote: Did you not bother getting yours done.

How did you get on removing & replacing the centre stand. I looked at it and thought how do you replace the springs.
Seem to remember mentioning it to a BMW dealer, their reply was, it's a right chew on, leave it alone.

Nope, I didn’t bother.  The reviews are too mixed to convince me. 


As for the stand, I have a local independent workshop near me -Just Motorcycles - they stripped the parts off, had the powder coating done an re-assembled.  They are top guys.