Transmission fail? Not FD.

[mcwhirtj]

My ride is inoperable!       

I started noticing an intermittent "shudder" when taking off a few months ago.  Only happened during clutch release into first gear and would stop once clutch was fully released and bike moving.  It was pretty noticeable, when it would do it, but was intermittent (maybe once a week and I ride daily).  Recently it did seem to be getting worse (and I kept telling myself "need to check on that" - doh!).

Then yesterday,  "it" went out (question is - what is "it")?:  I was driving down the freeway for a Sunday ride, and the bike starts shuddering.  I'm in sixth gear doing ~80mph.  I pull in clutch - no shudder.  Made my way across four lanes of freeway onto the off-ramp.  Drove about 100 yards to see if I could "limp home" - no way.  It shudders in all gears, and only stops when I pull in the clutch and coast.  I pulled into a parking lot and used my BMW MOA roadside assistance for the first time and got towed home. 

I had the FD fail two years ago so I know what that feels like.  I checked that first off, and FD is almost certainly NOT the issue.  Note no symptom coasting w/ clutch in.

Anyone have ideas on what failed, based on the symptoms?  There is a drive shaft with a pair of universal joints (CV config) as I can tell from the parts fiche.  I've had U-joints go out on caged vehicles that had similar symptom.  My wishful thinking is that it is something like that and not the transmission proper.    I haven't dug into it yet and am inclined to take it to the dealer ($$) due to no-time.  But if anyone has ideas on what it might be, and if that is not to invasive, I'd take a look at doing it myself.  I can do almost any repair, but it will be a matter of time required.  If I can fix it in a weekend, I'll do it myself. Otherwise, I need the bike running as it is my main transportation.

Jim
2005 R1200RT
89K miles

[guest2360]

With the bike on its centre stand in neutral does the wheel turn smoothly with no odd clunks or noises.
If so your clutch has died.

[Levisp]

With the bike on its centre stand in neutral does the wheel turn smoothly with no odd clunks or noises.
If so your clutch has died.

Yup sounds like clutch to me too.

[mcwhirtj]

Thanks for the feedback.  After reviewing some DIY posts on the clutch repair, I've decided to take it to the dealer.  If I had more time ...  Not looking forward to the bill!

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[scunny1]

The "shudder" was very similar to what I experienced when the clutch gave up on my K1200GT.  That too was an expensive, highly labour intensive repair. :'(

[mcwhirtj]

I have an appointment to drop off my bike at dealer (San Jose BMW) this coming Tuesday.  I'll post final outcome; diagnosis, repair and (gulp) dollars spent. 


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[mcwhirtj]

Got the bike into the dealer today.  Their verdict: Drive shaft (u-joint).  With mild satisfaction I quote from my original post:

I've had U-joints go out on caged vehicles that had similar symptom. 

But my mild satisfaction fades upon hearing the cost:  $1,100 for the drive shaft [emoji36].  Total bill with labor and parts (also new rubber boot) estimated to be $1,500 - $1,600.  Of course part not in stock - so could be in the shop a full week. 

Jim


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[mcwhirtj]

Meanwhile I'm enjoying ridding my wife's F800ST to work.  Somehow my mileage on that bike is 10mpg less than when she rides it [emoji12].  Peppy little bike.


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[richardbd]

Meanwhile I'm enjoying ridding my wife's F800ST to work.

Need to be careful riding a lady's bike.  Last time I borrowed a (girl) friend's GS in San Francisco, I got some very strange looks when my (male) mate and I pulled up anywhere - gas station, coffee shop etc etc.


Only when I returned the bike to Sue did I realise that the registration plate said "BMW Girl"...




:beee: :beee:

[mcwhirtj]

All done - got the bike back today  .  They ordered the wrong drive shaft first time (there was a mid-year change) and had to re-order correct one, so it took longer than I'd hoped.  I did get pretty comfortable riding the wife's F800ST in the meantime though - and was a trip today to get back on my RT after an extended time on the F800ST, and noting the differences (her's - more nimble at lower speeds, flickable.  Mine - infinitely more comfortable!). But I digress ...

Total cost was $1215.56 for the drive shaft and rubber boot and a bolt and nut.  Only three hours labor at $338.40, for a total bill of $1553.96 before tax.  I saw the old drive shaft (wish I had taken a picture!) and if I had gone much further, it would have let loose of the u-joint and really destroyed the swing arm.  So I made the right call when I pulled off the road.  Doesn't look like it would have gone much further before that would have happened.

In retrospect, it was a repair I could have easily done, but in this case the labor cost was minimal - the cost of parts was the big ticket item.  And given my schedule right now, I am happy to have paid the 3hrs labor to get it done.      Not so happy that a drive shaft cost $1,118.89!

[guest3954]

89k miles and the bike gave you plenty of warning of impending failure - good engineering- could have been a lot worse if had locked up. Glad it worked out for you. :D

[vulcanbike]

I doubt that the drive shaft is worth anything near $1200. Just a price they throw on it and take it or leave it. After all what is a drive shaft. A piece of pipe with a yoke welded on the end. Had a similiar experience with  Kawasaki Vulcan Classic. U joint was gone and from Kawasaki you had to buy the drive shaft with U Joint as a unit for about $800.Turns out the U Joint is the same one used on the Prairie 400 quad. From an aftermarket parts supplier I got the U Joint for $35.
Press old U joint apart in vise, press new one onto yoke of drive shaft and Bob's your Uncle, back on the road.

[mcwhirtj]

vulcanbike said "I doubt that the drive shaft is worth anything near $1200."

"Worth" is a complicated concept.  Price (cost to me) however is straightforward.  Go to any of the online parts microfiche and look up the price (I did).  That price is $1,118.89.  Cost (cost of goods for BMW) is clearly much much lower - as vulcanbike said;  it is some welded steel cylinders w/ (splined) yoke at either end and two u-joints.  Maybe $200-$300?   
The yoke on the end that failed was damaged (wish I had taken a picture), so it was not rebuild-able (at least not easily). 

But was it "worth" $1200 to get my bike back on the road given those constraints?  Yes.  In a different time and place, I would have looked at more aggressive rebuild and/or used (eBay) options, but where I am now, it was worth it.  I'm sure I could have gotten back on the road eventually for 5x to 10x less $.  But I'm on the road now :-)

I do think the mark-up is excessive.  But that is just the way it is  - not just BMW (but they excel at it).

[mcwhirtj]

I coulda' shoulda' fixed it myself ...  :-X    This is why I do most of my own repair work.  About two or three weeks after getting the bike back from the shop (I ride daily - commute to work) I got a "Brake Failure" light.  It would clear, and then not show up for a while, but eventually started showing up on every ride after a few minutes.  I've been out for several weeks on business trips - but this weekend I finally was home and had time to check into it.  Put the GS911 on and got a host of codes from the ABS system.  All related to the speed sensor.  When I saw those codes, I immediately thought "Crap - I'll bet  ...." and inspected the sensor at the rear rotor.  Sure enough (see photo) - after replacing the drive shaft, the dealer's tech failed to re-connect the cable clip to the rear drive housing (red circle),and the cable had rubbed up against the rear rotor (yellow circle),eventually completely through one of the two wires.

[attachimg=1]

I cut and spliced the wires together (soldered) and covered with shrink wrap, and it is working fine.  I also found a new (used but whole) cable/sensor assembly on eBay for $35 so I bought that and will install it when I get the time.  I considered the time and hassle it would have taken me to go back to the dealer, convince them they had made the mistake (which they did),probably have to get mad an loud to get them to finally give me some satisfaction (a new cable is $135 btw) and then I'd be without my bike again for a number of days (it is my daily commute vehicle) .... and decided it just wasn't worth it.  I spent about 3 hours to diagnose, fix and order the spare on eBay.

Lesson learned is to inspect that cable if anyone has done any work involving rear tire/brake/drive-shaft.  I've seen this mentioned many times in various forums as an important check after doing maintenance. 

-----------------------------
GS-911 Code Readout:
Integral ABS 2 - CAN

Motorcycle VIN: xxxxx

  23968: Rear Wheel Speed Sensor : No Signal
  The fault is currently present.
24052: Electrical System under-voltage
  The fault is not present now.
23969: Rear Wheel Speed Sensor : Signal implausible
  The fault is not present now.
23970: Rear Wheel Speed Sensor : Signal implausible
  The fault is not present now.