BMW R1200RT/R1250RT Forum

I'm new to the RT forum, as I am going to trade up from a 2013 F800GT with 24k miles to an RT this fall. I'm anxiously awaiting being able to get into the queue for delivery. But I wonder, as deals for remaining 2016 RT's start to pop up, what are the reasons for the judder damper, transmission shaft and bearing changes in the 2017 model? I get the attempt to improve gearbox selection (ie., "clunk"),is that the reason for the drivetrain changes? Or, is there some other issue that is popping up now that the original train has been in the field for 2+ years?


Thanks in advance, and Hello!

No reason at all that I can make out.  Probably to justify price increases.

So it's just a matter of the bank-optimized ABS Pro. Never missed it with 'regular' ABS on my 800GT - now trying to decide if I "can't live without it" on a new RT...  . Plus Ebony Black vs Carbon Black...Oh the agony!!

The ebony is not really black it is brown. 

jbbli wrote: So it's just a matter of the bank-optimized ABS Pro. Never missed it with 'regular' ABS on my 800GT - now trying to decide if I "can't live without it" on a new RT...  . Plus Ebony Black vs Carbon Black...Oh the agony!!

I moved up from F800GT also w/ 26K miles to a new '16 RT.  ABS Pro is attractive to me and I'm hoping they allow for retrofit for '16's.  This is a feature you likely will never know you have but in the event you are leaned over and need to brake harder and are unable to straighten up before braking it make be useful.  Others here have opined the telelever front end can obviate the need for ABS Pro, at least some. 


You also have to wonder what these new parts will bring, i.e. they aren't yet proven at least to end-users.  You do know what you're getting w/ a '16.  You will likely save quite a bit by going to a '16--enough to purchase Nav V, Clearwater lights if you're so inclined, and a slew of other things you might wish to change or add.


To help you grapple w/ shifting issues which is the primary target of changes in '17 along w/ ABS Pro, read here:  #7


Whatever your decision--it's an incredible machine compared to GT.  I did a nearly 10K mile trip on it shortly after I took delivery and it was flawless on every type of road involved.


Here's another option if you have concerns about cost.  I opted out of the fully loaded commonly available US models and ordered mine custom.  In doing so I saved enough to buy Nav V, and had the dealer add two FIAMM Freeway Blaster horns, and I had swapped out the OEM meeper for a Denali Mini Sound Bomb, so my RTW has 3 horns and it's LOUD!  I ordered my RTW w/o the audio package for a $1,500 savings as I use SENA headset, no central locking, no keyless ignition, no fugly chrome muffler (much prefer the brushed stainless one), and skipped out of Shift Assist Pro.  Turns out you can do clutchless shifting w/o it very smoothly which I do quite regularly now as desired, though it takes a bit of learning.  The 'hard parts' in Shift Assist Pro are in RT's w/o the feature--you're paying for a software feature that cuts ignition just long enough to facilitate shifting w/o the clutch, and so you can simulate this w/ an ultra quick and short throttle roll-off.  I mainly use it in the higher gears, 4-5, 5-6.  My '16 has Dynamic ESA, ASC, ABS, TPM, Ride Modes Pro, Hillstart, LED halo lights.


Good luck on your decision.

Just try changing down with no clutch or Shift Assist.

RTman10 wrote: Just try changing down with no clutch or Shift Assist.

Right--w/o SAP upshifting is pretty much all you can do.  If one is inclined to pre-load the shifter for downshifts no doubt you've accidentally done this before, and it's jerky and undesirable.  Fortunately, my left hand works real well and the hydraulic clutch is very easy to actuate for downshifting. 


My understanding from reading comments only and no personal experience is that 1st to 2nd in particular, and 2nd to 3rd to a lesser degree, using SAP isn't all that friendly.  Plus, I'm not in the habit of jackrabbit starting from a stop anywhere.  By the time you're in 3rd you have ample rpm range to accelerate for example up to freeway speeds on a short onramp that you could stay in 3rd anyway, especially since peak HP doesn't even happen until you get up to 6500 rpm or something like that and if I recall the one time I did this rpm was around 5800 or so in 3rd gear at 70mph.  And if you needed more range one can clutch-less shift easily from 3rd to 4th w/o SAP anyway.

If you had it you wouldn't want to go without again.  Suggest you borrow a demo with it and then get it retro fitted. 


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RTman10 wrote: If you had it you wouldn't want to go without again.  Suggest you borrow a demo with it and then get it retro fitted. 


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Thanks for the warning, I'll pass.  Once you've mastered upshifting w/o the clutch, w/o paying for SAP, and if you're happy downshifting w/ the clutch, it has little value.

Noel wrote:
Thanks for the warning, I'll pass.  Once you've mastered upshifting w/o the clutch, w/o paying for SAP, and if you're happy downshifting w/ the clutch, it has little value.

I have GAP on my bike.  I didn't specify it as the bike was second hand and I wasn't that bothered about having it.


Interestingly, I still downshift the old-fashioned way 99% of the time but use the GAP 99% of the time on the upshifts beyond 2nd and every time I do, it makes me smile.  It's a hoot to use.


If I were buying another BMW now, I would 100% certainly specify the GAP.


Funny how using something an alter your previous prejudices...

richardbd wrote:Funny how using something an alter your previous prejudices...

It gets even funnier when you discover you can do the same thing w/o SAP and bonus, it doesn't cost a thing 

No you can't.  But as it seems you have not tried the system how do you know .

RTman10 wrote: No you can't.  But as it seems you have not tried the system how do you know .

OK, back at you:  have you MASTERED clutch-less upshifting on a non-SAP enabled RTW yet?  If not, then you are in the very same boat.  You would have had to own and ride one considerably before you can draw conclusions. 


I've been at it now infrequently for only a month or so.  I've come closer to mastery in just the last few weeks, and within that period, just the last few days out.  I'm able now to shift from 3-4-5-6 now w/ maybe 80% perfect shifts, and by that I mean little to no dive whatsoever and if you were riding on the back you likely would not know the shift occurred.  Already I hardly have to think about it.  From all I've read from others, there is a learning curve on SAP equipped RTW's.  So in this regard, it's looking more and more like what truly is offered in the technology involved can be approximated to a high degree.  What it comes down to is two learned actions:  the throttle roll-is a genuine micro-blip.  And the other piece is returning the throttle to the right position.  My sense is once you've mastered this, you're very close to what SAP equipped RTW's offer.  After all, if you shift w/o the clutch, and it's totally smooth, what's the clear advantage w/ SAP?  Spare you wrist a little exercise?  It's especially rewarding to realize I didn't need to pay the freight for it.  I began to think about this when I learned what SAP equipped RTW's involve from talking w/ the local shop--no new hard parts, it's all in the timing essentially.

Yes I can do clutchless up changes and mastered it in about 1959.  Don't need to bother any more though.  You say little or no dive.  That's nothing to do with your gear changes, it's called telelever front suspension.  But joking aside it just not possible to get a manual change without the clutch as smoothly and consistently as Pro shift can, honest. Down shifting of course it's impossible .


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RTman10 wrote: Yes I can do clutchless up changes and mastered it in about 1959.  Don't need to bother any more though.  You say little or no dive.  That's nothing to do with your gear changes, it's called telelever front suspension.  But joking aside it just not possible to get a manual change without the clutch as smoothly and consistently as Pro shift can, honest. Down shifting of course it's impossible .


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Sorry, invalid comparison--this is a '16 RTW not your vintage 1959 whatever.  BS on the cause of the dive--it's from sudden deceleration from too slow a throttle roll off regardless of which front suspension is involved.  The same dynamic happened only more so w/ clutch-less shifting on my F800, w/o telelever. 


Remember:  all SAP does is do what your brain and hands can do if it mastered the timings involved.  You're old POS in 1959 had cabled throttle--what a whacky comparison.  Go out and master it on a new RT w/o SAP then come back so you can speak w/ any authority.


Does SAP do it w/o ANY learned behavior by the rider?  Quite apparently not when you read the threads dedicated to help new users adjust to what's required.  Hard parts identical--it's all software driven.  I could give a shit about downshifting w/o the clutch--I'm not so physically impaired I can't manage the hydraulic clutch and enjoy the challenge of syncing rpm and gears.  After SAP comes automatic.  Don't care for that either--apparently when Yamaha released FJR1300 w/ an automatic it lasted about one model year and disappeared henceforth.


Now all this discussion aside, sure, you can be less conscious using SAP than not, at least I would hope so else it's a complete scam, especially if you have a left hand than can manage downshifts.  Is it worth the $500-$700 upcharge?  Not for me!


Peace Out