Remote Fob poor/no signal

[Howelligan]

Afternoon All, I've spent some time trawling through old posts/topics & haven't found anything that answers this one, & what I found elsewhere hasn't helped much either. So here goes-
Ebony came with two Remote Fobs. Her original fob, which was missing the key, & an new fob, complete with key but not synced/programmed to her.
I got the key off the new fob swapped across to the old fob when I went to Perth to collect her, then had the new fob synced to her & ordered a new key for it. Everything seemed to be fine, both fobs worked as expected, but during my last trip to Perth, she started to show the 'unhappy key' icon on the instrument panel. I thought this was because of a flat battery, so replaced it with the required CR2023 as per the dealership's advice. This seemed to have done the trick, but then the unhappy key icon returned. It's been popping up intermittently ever since. =-( My concern is that it is now present more than it isn't & the other night, while trying to get the Carpuride to work, it came on & was joined by another 'More unhappy key' icon, & she had some issues unlocking & starting, which is a concern.
I'm hoping that perhaps a 'plug' has come loose at the back of the dashboard, or possibly some water found its way in there when I washed it in Perth. But I have no idea where to start in terms of accessing/finding the antenna, nor what I might be able to do to fix her.
Any ideas/experience, anyone?

[Lonespader]

Not sure if you meant to put CR2023 battery in the post. CR2032 is the correct battery according to what I read. There is actually a CR2023 so maybe the problem is the wrong battery if that is what was installed.

[Capt Sisko]

A bit of useless info about CR batteries.

C means it's Lithium
R means it's Round
20 is mm in diameter
32 means it's 3.2mm thick
Regarless they'e all a nominal 3v and pretty obviously the larger the battery, the greater mAh capacity.

As far as I know there's no CR2023, but there is a 2025 and whilst not recommened, at a push the old folded silver foil trick can work to make up the difference in thickness.

Going back to the OP's problem, I normally keep the fob in a waterproof pouch on a lanyard hanging around my neck. I don't notice it's there, it's kind of hard to lose and for me it just works, however, in the winter when I'm wearing my Keis heated vest the electromagnet field created by the vest is enough to disrupt the signal of the fob. I then get an out of range key fob symbol from the bike. Okay I can see from the OP's profile we're talking about Perth Australia and not Perth in Scotland so the need for the OP to have an electric vest in the first place is somewhat less, but it does show that things can disrupt the signal and maybe it's worth the OP checking his pockets or wherever he keeps the fob in case something else is interfering with the signal.

[Howelligan]

@Capt Sisko, Thanks. I do have a heated vest, which I purchased a few years ago, while living in Perth (still WA). It's nothing fancy, just a Milwaukee Tradie's Vest, but it goes OK under/over my jackets & does the trick when needed. Surprisingly enough, we do manage to get sub 10oC temps during Winter, along with heavy rain, both of which intensify as you move south east of Perth, so it got a fair amount of use. I s'pose it's all relative, as a drop from mid to high 20's on a clear Winter's day to 5 in the evening is 'noticable'. But since moving back to the 'Tropics' it only comes out for trips south. As you mention 'electromagnetic fields' it occurs to me that I had similar issues with the fob for my recently departed GTR, which I put down to 'age', but remembering that I seem to posess the ability to interfere with electrical devices simply by my presence, perhaps it's as simple as that, I just make the fob 'unhappy' or disrupt its signals.

[Howelligan]

That's my 'thing learned for today'.

A bit of useless info about CR batteries.

C means it's Lithium
R means it's Round
20 is mm in diameter
32 means it's 3.2mm thick
Regarless they'e all a nominal 3v and pretty obviously the larger the battery, the greater mAh capacity.

As far as I know there's no CR2023, but there is a 2025 and whilst not recommened, at a push the old folded silver foil trick can work to make up the difference in thickness.

Going back to the OP's problem, I normally keep the fob in a waterproof pouch on a lanyard hanging around my neck. I don't notice it's there, it's kind of hard to lose and for me it just works, however, in the winter when I'm wearing my Keis heated vest the electromagnet field created by the vest is enough to disrupt the signal of the fob. I then get an out of range key fob symbol from the bike. Okay I can see from the OP's profile we're talking about Perth Australia and not Perth in Scotland so the need for the OP to have an electric vest in the first place is somewhat less, but it does show that things can disrupt the signal and maybe it's worth the OP checking his pockets or wherever he keeps the fob in case something else is interfering with the signal.

[Doctor T]

My car has the same problem. After months of trying to figure out why it kept saying 'no key detected' and making trips to the dealer, I finally solved the problem. If I have my phone too close to the key, it stops working. Also, I depend on the material of my jacket or trousers. Natural fibers are okay, but man-made fibers interfere with the key.

[Arends]

I was changing the battery too often, before I accepted my faith. I have the "scared key" icon on my dash often, no matter where I do have the key on me (in a hip bag, in right or left waist pocket of my jacket). It is annoying, as I do not dare to stop the engine at traffic lights, knowing that I'll have at least 90 seconds till the sequence comes around.
I hate having the key in a chest pocket, as one of my falls resulted in broken ribs and the idea that I would land of set of keys scares me.
My phone is in the "nav" holder above the dashboard, but I might try to ride without it couple of times, to see if I see any difference.

[Howelligan]

Thanks Arends, I feel better knowing that I'm not alone in this. The icons seem to appear & disappear without rhyme or reason. They can remain on throughout an hour long ride, pop up for a minute or so intermittently, or not appear at all over a few hours.
I have the same fear of getting 'stranded' somewhere, especially out here, & not being able to convince her to start while I bake in the sun.

[Howelligan]

Hey Doctor T, I think you're onto something. Initially, I was sceptical about my phone having any involvement, as it sits off to the right, well above the right nand grip & my fob is generally in the 'coin pocket' of my jeans/trousers, or the pocket of my jacket, so 'it shouldn't be interfering with the fob'. But I've recently noticed that my car fob stops working if it is in the same pocket as my mobile, & noticably if it's behind the phone. So I did a quick test & am now convinced that, regardless of others refuting the possibility, the phone is quite capable of 'blocking' the fob's signal. A bit of 'online research' gave me something else to think about. It seems Mobile Phone Chargers, especially the 'wireless' variety are definitely known to have sich powers. I haven't had the bike for long, but for the first few weeks there were no issues, then the problem 'suddenly' appeared. And what had changed right about that time? Not the location of the phone, as I'd installed my basic Quadlock holder prior to riding her, & the general position has remained the same, & I'd been usingva cable charger. However, I replaced the standard Quadlock holder with the Quadlick wireless charging unit off my previous bike, right about the time when the fob began to 'glitch'. Some further thought brought me to the realisation that the previous bikes' fob issues arrived around the same time as the wireless charging unit. A strange coincidence. Now to test the theory. The charging unit is 'hard wired', so I may need to get creative, but first up, I think I'll try not putting the phone on the charging unit & see if the the problem is there with the charger powered but without a phone charging on it. I can't help wondering if the 'intermittent nature of the problem could be related to when the charger starts & stops charging the phone.

My car has the same problem. After months of trying to figure out why it kept saying 'no key detected' and making trips to the dealer, I finally solved the problem. If I have my phone too close to the key, it stops working. Also, I depend on the material of my jacket or trousers. Natural fibers are okay, but man-made fibers interfere with the key.

[Gavj]

Mine signals key missing if I dont put the fob in my right hand pocket! Even with a fresh battery. Works fine if I put the fob in the glove box thingy but then I walk away and forget to take the key with me

[Howelligan]

Mine signals key missing if I dont put the fob in my right hand pocket! Even with a fresh battery. Works fine if I put the fob in the glove box thingy but then I walk away and forget to take the key with me

It's a rather strange set up.

[Howelligan]

Hey Doctor T, I think you're onto something. Initially, I was sceptical about my phone having any involvement, as it sits off to the right, well above the right nand grip & my fob is generally in the 'coin pocket' of my jeans/trousers, or the pocket of my jacket, so 'it shouldn't be interfering with the fob'. But I've recently noticed that my car fob stops working if it is in the same pocket as my mobile, & noticably if it's behind the phone. So I did a quick test & am now convinced that, regardless of others refuting the possibility, the phone is quite capable of 'blocking' the fob's signal. A bit of 'online research' gave me something else to think about. It seems Mobile Phone Chargers, especially the 'wireless' variety are definitely known to have sich powers. I haven't had the bike for long, but for the first few weeks there were no issues, then the problem 'suddenly' appeared. And what had changed right about that time? Not the location of the phone, as I'd installed my basic Quadlock holder prior to riding her, & the general position has remained the same, & I'd been usingva cable charger. However, I replaced the standard Quadlock holder with the Quadlick wireless charging unit off my previous bike, right about the time when the fob began to 'glitch'. Some further thought brought me to the realisation that the previous bikes' fob issues arrived around the same time as the wireless charging unit. A strange coincidence. Now to test the theory. The charging unit is 'hard wired', so I may need to get creative, but first up, I think I'll try not putting the phone on the charging unit & see if the the problem is there with the charger powered but without a phone charging on it. I can't help wondering if the 'intermittent nature of the problem could be related to when the charger starts & stops charging the phone.

I tested my theory last night. Interesting results:
1. First getting on bike with Phone on Quadlock Wireless Mount & Fob in Right Coin Pocket= Missing Notification almost immediate.
2. When I removed phone from charger & moved it away from bike, notification disappeared. As soon as phone returned so did the notification.
3. Fob into Left Jacket Pocket= Notification disappeared. Then couldn't get notification to re-appear, regardless of phone &/or fob locations, over 25kms & approx. 30mins.
Noticed phone had reached 100% charge around same time as notification had disappeared.
4. Went & had coffee, ran charge down on phone to 90%. Phone on Quadlock Wireless Mount & Fob in Right Coin Pocket= Missing Notification almost immediate. Same as before, removed phone from charger & notification disappeared. Phone back on charger & notification returned. Rode for 25mins, with phone charging & notification continued, except when phone removed from charger. As soon as phone reached 100% charge notification disappeared.
Conclusion- The charger is the issue, but only when it is actively charging the phone. Otherwise, it doesn't cause any problems.
This explains brief periods (1-2min) of notifications during extended rides while using phone for navigation, etc., as the phone periodically 'tops up' its battery, & also the extended time of notification when I first get on the bike after a break & playing with my phone.
Now feeling reasonably confident that Fobs & Remote System on Bike are all operating 'normally' & aren't likely to let me down.
Hooe this helps someone else along the way.

[Gavj]

It's a rather strange set up.

Just reading some other posts and realised..... might be to do with my Phone, which I put in my left pocket.... so if fob is near phone it doesn't work as well?

[Howelligan]

Seems likely. Would never ave thought.
My phone completely disables bothbbike fobs & the car fob if it gets between them & the vehicle, in close proximity to the fob, & the charger/phone combination seem to ave an extended range when actually charging.

[Arends]

I've done similar test. When I don't put my phone into the holder in NAV mount (and the phone holder has cordless charging too), there is no warning for missing key.

The convenience of cordless charging and me using phone for all controls is too great to spend a lot of money for a NAV-mounted remote control display and to keep the phone in a cubby on the cable so far. Let's see what dropping prices of such devices will do for me.